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Va. Senate poised to pass bill for pre-abortion ultrasounds

UPDATE: Bill passed by Senate

RICHMOND

The Virginia Senate, for years a firewall against efforts to restrict abortion, today is poised to pass a bill to require that pregnant women undergo an ultrasound and get a chance to see the image before having an abortion.

It's one of several anti-abortion bills now moving through the General Assembly. Others would give legal rights to unborn children, prohibit abortions after 20 weeks unless a woman's life or physical well-being is at risk, and further limit public funding for some abortions.

Unlike past sessions when some of those measures failed in the Senate, social conservatives now sense a chance for long-desired gains. That turnaround is attributable to Republican gains in the fall elections, which gave the party effective control of the Senate, now split 20-20 between the two parties.

"We stand amazed at the work God has done to achieve what last year seemed to be the impossible," Family Foundation President Victoria Cobb said Monday in an email urging recipients to lobby senators to approve the ultrasound bill. She called it "the first significant pro-life bill to receive a favorable report" from the Senate Education and Health Committee in nine years.

That legislation from Sen. Jill Holtzman Vogel, R-Fauquier County, would amend Virginia's informed consent law to make women undergo ultrasound imaging to determine the gestational age of the fetus.

The bill, SB484, says pregnant women must be given an opportunity to view the ultrasound image prior to an abortion and requires abortion providers to keep a copy in the patient’s file.

"I view this as a serious women's health issue," Vogel said on her website. "At a minimum, ultrasound is necessary to determine gestational age and that there is no anomaly that could affect the health of the mother or outcome of the procedure."

Pro-abortion rights advocates consider the ultrasound provision a tactic to add cost and inconvenience to the process with the goal of getting women to change their minds.

Sen. Janet Howell, D-Fairfax County, was dismayed enough by the bill's progress that she tried to amend it so men seeking prescriptions for erectile dysfunction medication such as Viagra would be required to undergo a rectal exam and cardiac stress test.

She said that's "only fair, that if we're going to subject women to unnecessary procedures, and we're going to subject doctors to having to do things that they don't think is medically advisory."

Her proposed amendment failed Monday, leaving Vogel's bill on the verge of Senate approval.

Similar bills have been filed in the Republican-run House of Delegates, and Gov. Bob McDonnell has indicated he'll sign ultrasound legislation if it reaches his desk.

After taking power, Republican lawmakers reshaped the Senate Education and Health Committee, which recently cleared Vogel's bill on an 8-7 party line vote. That panel will likely be the venue for several other abortion-control bills this winter.

One now in the House would end state subsidies for needy women to terminate a gravely troubled pregnancy.

The bill, from Del. Mark Cole, would eliminate that financial support even when a doctor believes an unborn child "would be born with a gross and totally incapacitating physical deformity or mental deficiency."

Less than $2,800 in public funds was spent last year on 10 abortions that qualified for subsidies.

Cole, R-Spotsylvania County, said the bill would make Virginia law consistent with federal code.

The bill would force low-income women to choose between carrying a doomed pregnancy "or pay out of pocket for abortion care she and her doctor may determine she needs at a difficult time," argued Jessica Honke, a lobbyist for Planned Parenthood.

The abortion bills now in the queue "are not what Virginians had in mind" when they elected Republicans to serve in Richmond, added Virginia Democratic Party Chairman Brian Moran, who said they should focus on economic concerns rather than meddling in health care decisions best left to women and their doctors.

The current blitz of bills follows key anti-abortion victories from last year.

In 2011, the legislature passed a law to regulate abortion clinics like hospitals, a change critics say could drive them out of business.

Lawmakers also made a policy statement that abortions shouldn't be covered in a state-run health benefits exchange, a subject of similar legislation this year.

Roanoke Times reporter Michael Sluss contributed to this article.

Julian Walker, 804-697-1564, julian.walker@pilotonline.com

Posted to: Health Politico Politics State Government Virginia

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Stay classy

All y'all. I would say I hope this dies before it gets out of the Senate, but I don't have much faith.

You stated the common thread among abortion recipients

"I would say I hope this dies before it gets out..."

Why are pro choice folks so afraid of education and information? That's all an ultrasound will accomplish. It allows a woman a much clearer picture of what she's about to do. There is nothing here that restricts her "right" to do it.

It is a poverty that a "child must die", So that you may live as you wish... - Mother Teresa

Who will pay?

And who will foot the bill for this unecessary testing?

The women whom the

The women whom the Republican wishes to victimize by this law will obviously pay for this added expense. This is just another of a series of anti abortion laws meant to make women's reproductive medicine more costly and less available. The Hand Maid's tale comes to Virginia

Turn down your rage a notch

I was talking about hoping the bill died, not a baby.

(For what it's worth, as a Catholic, I'm pro-life...and against capital punishment. But both are realities of US law.)

Why are you in favor of the

Why are you in favor of the state mandating that a doctor insert a metal probe into a women's vagina not because of concern for the women's health but in the hope that the process or the prospect of the process will disuade the patient from receiving health care? Thhat's what you small government types are rooting for the humiliation and expense of a needless procedure. This is just like the new rules for women's reproductive health clinics. It is a dominionist intrusion.

mrs. howell

Didn't you learn in kindergarden that when you do something out of anger, NOTHING good comes from it. Stop hating on men because we don't have to go through the same physical exam as you women. In other words, stop the hating be.... & personnally, I think this will prevent just a few abortions,if any. I think it's time for you to be voted out ASAP. Trying to get payback is a terrible trait from one of our elected officials, disgusting & pathetic.

Spending 30 Seconds on a comment

You may want to consider typing your comments in a Word document before posting. Your post is littered with grammar and punctuation errors that make it difficult to read.

Why?

Why do people that think they are so much smarter than others have to always point out someone else's "grammar and punctuation" errors? Does this attack have any thing to do with the original article? Does it mean your opinion is more important than their opinion? Does it make you feel more intellectual or more right? Do you think you are the first one to think of it and that everyone will be impressed? Maybe it makes you feel like the sharpest knife in the drawer. Does it? Are you? Are people that can't spell or read not allowed to voice their thoughts about a subject? I could go on but I hope you get the point. May I suggest that you just stop already.

WHy? Quite simple actually

If you don't care enough to bother to try to use good grammar and punctuation, it makes you look dumb and lazy and detracts from whatever it is you're trying to say. It's not elitist to do it correctly. As they say, if you're going to do a job, do it right. No excuses for laziness and dumbing down.

You're right.

Yes, you are right that it is not elitist to do it correctly. It's elitist to correct others who do not.

Hey grammar police, Your

Hey grammar police,

Your sentence should read as follows:

Your post is littered with grammar and punctuation errors, which make it difficult to read.

Toward a more prosaic post

I want to try too (the salutation will kill 'em with kindness!)

Dear Grammar Police,

Your post is incomprehensible. The grammar and punctuation errors make me nauseous.

:)

My word choice was proper, but thank you for your input. My primary complaint is that people often post comments without proofreading anything that was written.

I was just poking fun, but

I was just poking fun, but there actually is a specific difference as to when to use "which" or "that".

I do agree that people need to express themselves properly; however, in a forum like this you can't expect everyone to be an English major. The thoughts and ideas are what are important. I agree with the previous poster. If you have something to say, don't pick apart how the person said it, pick apart what they had to say.

Dogpen

The behavior of those wanting to hinder women from making choices regarding themselves is abhorrent and pathetic. Legislators do not belong in the womb, no should they make decisions affecting women's choices. There should be a law requiring religious right legislators to get a rectal exam for each anti-choice bill they vote for.

Just think!

Such an exam may help them find their brains!

hmmm...

are you suggesting where your brain might be?

I think

I think that you go too far sir.
Rude behavior solves no problems and does not further any discussion.

Why can't she do this? If

Why can't she do this? If the Republicans can regulate what a women has to go through, unnecessarily, to obtain an abortion, then what a man needs to do for a medical procedure can be regulated just as well [& unnecessarily]. The absurdity of the conservatives' obsession of meddling with a person's body has to be brought to our attention & kept there.

Ridiculous

These are the types of things our elected officials are wasting time and money on. Frankly, I've grown tired of folks pushing their own beliefs on everyone else as opposed to using good, common sense with regard to governmental involvement.

Idiotic

"We’re going to subject women to unnecessary procedures." Is that not what aborition is?

No...

Abortion is a difficult and personal choice that I hope no one you know has to ever make. But for the woman that makes that choice I hope that she is allowed a safe choice rather then drugs and coathangers in an alley somewhere.

Sir

with all due respect it is not for you to decide what is necessary or not for the woman. That was the whole point of Howell's amendment.

An ultrasound is not necessary for an abortion. This is nothing but government meddling in private lives.

Dems, Reps, all are totalitarian in some way.

And Sir, With All Due Respect to You...

...an abortion is NEVER necessary for a pregnancy. Prior to Planned Parenthood mobilizing and organizing clinics throughout the country, women were not readily CHOOSING to have their pregancies (already in process), terminated, regardless of reason or term.

Just goes to prove my point,

Just goes to prove my point, that, like a physician's hands, government should be small and barely noticeable. Government has no business getting involved in the private practice of medicine between a patient and their physiscian.

Voice vote

I think it is gutless that these bills are being advanced on voice votes. Let's get on the record.

The disingenuous application

The disingenuous application of false data and legal fictions by the federal government (the US Sup Crt) in 1973 to create a right to an abortion that simply did not exist anywhere in the Constitution, has brought us to this point where state legislatures must now oppose abortions in a similarly disingenuous manner. A reoccuring theme in politics seems to be one political party seeking to create news rights for groups that do not exist and the other party seeking to create new government powers that do not exist and we pay the price in the transfer of wealth and the loss of our freedoms.

What was disingenuous about

the court finding that a medical procedure was an individual right, founded on the 1st, 9th and 14th amendments? How is a woman's right to control her body subject to the approval of the state?

The same reasoning that

The same reasoning that protects any person from being harmed by another. If someone murders a pregnant woman in Virginia he is charged with 2 murders by the Commonwealth. And if he knows she was pregnant the death of the unborn child can even be a capital crime. We have hospitals in the United States that have doctors in one wing using every possible resourse available to save the life of an unborn baby, while doctors in another wing of the same hospital are aborting a baby of the same term. The issues of abortion have caused many to suspend reason to the point they see no inconsistency in these positions.

Yet I do not

accept your determination a fetus is a person. If a woman chooses to terminate it is her choice, if she chooses to bring to term, again her choice.

And one wonders how many of these premature fetuses would survive if the parents were required to pay for it, not the insurance companies or the government.

The fact that a woman finds

The fact that a woman finds its inconvenient to have a baby now, does not mean she wouldn't be a good mother if she had the baby. I'm certain most women who have abortions are wonderfully capable of loving their child and taking care of the baby. The proof is the millions who go on later to have other children and make great parents.

A Taxpayer's nightmare

Where are you coming up with your data? I'll cite a study on prison inmates that was discussed in one of my undergraduate classes at ODU. When asked whether or not they felt wanted or loved by their parents as a child, the overwhelming majority of the inmates said they didn't. Unwanted children are an enormous burden on our society, and frankly, are a conservative taxpayer's worst nightmare. Do you honestly think that the mothers who are persuaded to have unwanted children won't go on to severely abuse and neglect their children after the birth?

Using that logic why do we

Using that logic why do we allow prison inmates to live?

The courts have established viability as the criteria

for protection of the unborn as persons. Most if not all states have enacted legislation that incorporates that principle. Therefore the scenario you paint of viable babies being aborted while preemies are cared for in another wing is fiction like almost all of the horror stories dreamed up by anti-choice religious zealots.

The courts establish an

The courts establish an illogical standard and, therefore, the debate is over? Why does the ability to live outside the womb make one unborn baby worth saving and another not? Does life have more value only to religious zealots but less value to those who profess little or no religious belief? What rights do human beings have if they do not possess the right to live. I find it irrational to give every benefit of the doubt to the person who 99% of the time voluntarily engaged in the behavior that resulted in the pregnancy and no benefit of the doubt to the child created that is 100% innocent.

Choose_Freedom

You decry the "loss of our freedoms" while advocating the restriction of freedom for women to make their own moral choices? What is up with that?

My rights and freedoms

My rights and freedoms should be unlimited and unrestricted until they bump up against or infringe on anothers rights and freedoms. Denying another his or her right to live is a pretty significant infringement.

Losing Our Rights and Freedom

God bless Senator Janet Howell for illustrating how abhorrent it is to have religious fundamentalists meddle in another's personal affairs. What happened to the conservative ideal of small government? The republican party is no longer conservative after being hijacked by religious fundamentalists. When the government gains ground on interfering with one's medical matters, it sets a precedent for one's rights and freedom to be taken away one issue at a time.

To characterize those who

To characterize those who oppose abortion as being religious fundamentalists is not acurate or fair. Anyone, regardless of religious beliefs, who opposed war, capital punishment, and abortion could be considered ideologically consistent, but not necessarily a religious fundamentalist. The role of the federal government should be to protect life and property, not strip the states of their power to do so.

Hmm...

You're right; I shouldn't have limited my comment strictly to religious fundamentalists, but to fundamentalists in general. When our government gives us the right to bear arms, it isn't exactly tasked with protecting all life.

Government didn't give us

Government didn't give us the right to bear arms. That's pretty important to understand. The Constitution limits what the general government can do to the rights I have as a human being. The right to bear arms is about me protecting myself.

Derail

You're completely derailing the topic of conversation. This isn't about semantics.

Your position is nothing but

Your position is nothing but semantics. It's not pro-abortion its pro-choice. It's not a baby its a fetus. It's not about protecting human life its about a woman's right to choose (but never say choose what). Life may begin at conception but what is really important is personhood (what ever that means). Regular people don't oppose abortion, only fundamentalists do.

Read Carefully

If you'll take the time to actually read my comment, you'll see that I never used any of the divisive terms or labels you mentioned. It's obvious that you're very worked up, but I don't think your response had anything to do with my comment.

Sir

might I suggest you read the 9th amendment, the one that guarantees individual rights over the state? The state and the fed both derive their power from the people. They retain their rights until they allow the government to take them.

I believe the 9th protects a woman's right to control her own body.

If it quacks like a duck.

The political drive to have the government make moral decisions for women comes almost entirely from religious fundamentalists. There may be a small number who think other people should be forced to undertake the risks and pain and lifelong consequences of an unwanted pregnancy based on something OTHER than religious beliefs - but there number is vanishingly small.

I believe

Ms. Howell is a committed atheist.. she might take umbrage on your God Bless.

:)

If she's an atheist, I'll think even more highly of her.

Why would you mention this?

Is it an atttempt at personal destruction?

I love it.

No better entertainment than to watch a lib throwing a hissy-fit.

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I applaud Senator Howell

This is part of the full Republican enema that we are going to receive with a Republican-controlled Senate. These far right politicians are pushing their beliefs on society. This is a ploy by them to add another step to the abortion process and interfere with a woman's right to choose.

?

One not need to be any fundamentalist of any type to see a society where those that try to save bears and whales, cause they dont have a voice, are championed on billboards and TV shows. While those who try and save humans beings who dont have a voice are ostracised as nutjobs.

Pretty disgusting.

Well put and

to irritate the liberals a little more.. you get a big Amen from me.

that's typically "christian"

that's typically "christian" of you

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Not about saving humans...

Your discussing the right of a female human to end an unwanted pregnancy.
Not really anyone business but hers and her physicians. It doesn't impact YOU. Why do care?

Same reason....

I care about the unnecessary taking of every human life. If you believe life begins at conception (which I do), then that life should have the same protections as every other life. So just as a mother and her doctor cannot legally decide to kill her 5 year old child, the same applies to her unborn baby.

Life begins before conception.

Eggs and sperm have life and they are human - human life.

The question is not when "life" begins. It is when does "personhood" begin under our system of laws. SCOTUS says at viability when the developing human has the ability to live outside the womb. You disagree. You say personhood begins at conception.

Do you really believe that?

If you do then a woman who has a abortion and her doctor are baby killers and should be sent to prison for life or put to death. So too should fertility doctors whose in vitro techniques "kill" lots of "babies." Do you believe they should be punished as murderers? If not, you are tacitly admitting that there is something different about a fetus compared to that five year old child, are you not?

Good questions

My bright line is conception (for "life" or "personhood" as you may prefer to call it). And yes, I disagree with SCOTUS on Roe v. Wade (even many liberal legal scholars who are pro-choice confess that Roe v. Wade was inproperly decided). And I do believe that the woman and doctor are taking an innocent life. Of course, under our laws, that is not illegal, so our society cannot punish them (nor am I pro death penalty). But I would like a constitutional amendment that states life begins at conception (and therefore cannot be taken away without due process of law).

LOL

This is a great idea. Why not have men get a heart stress test before Viagra. The cost will add additional money to the economy. Men will be protected from heart attacks during sex. Follow the logic here: since erectile DYSfunction reduces sexual activity, making it harder (excuse the pun) for a man to get Viagra will reduce the likelihood of pregnancy and thus prevent an abortion. (Anything can be rationalized)
Just like the guilt trip ultra-sound thing is meant to make it harder for a women to make the difficult choice of an abortion.
Beware! The GOP is on the march to take away as many of our personnel freedoms as possible. Big Brother GOP is watching!

I think

we will bow to your obvious knowledge of erectile dysfunction.

As you should

experience is the best teacher

LOL

... watching for up to FOUR HRS of a painful erection. And the insurance companies are paying for Viagra. Are they paying also for aphrodisiacs, sex toys, and vibrators?

typical

underhanded Democratic response...This is exactly why Northern Virginia should be ceded to Maryland or Washington DC. I wonder why the liberals on here are not decrying worthless and unproductive legislation like they normally do? The new rules are for the protection of the women having abortions.. it is somewhat invasive therefore a sterile environment is most important. The democrats rant about lack of rules and regulations with the FDA and the EPA (which saddles countless thousands of businesses and in fact has put thousands out of business) but these rules (recommended by a bi-partisan medical board of doctors and health professionals) might add some cost to Planned Parenthood's abortion mills and cut their profit and they freak out.

Getting Our Facts Straight

You do realize that Planned Parenthood is a nonprofit entity, right? You may want to go back and actually reread the article so that your points are relevant to the subject matter addressed in the bill.

nonprofit entity

All that means is there are no owners or shareholders. The “profit” is called “overhead” and goes into the pockets of the administrators.

Patronizing much?

Please don't patronize me. My point is that in a nonprofit organization, the first priority isn't compensation.

you are

joking right? Planned Parenthood should be called Abortion Planning. They make a great deal of money.. they just eat up the profits with administrative costs. Over 91 of their revenues outside of government money (which is another debate entirely) is derived from abortions.

Really?

91% ?? Documentation please, source documents???
Considering that their website states that only 3% of their business
is related to abortions services.

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Where did you get your

Where did you get your "facts?"

You are absolutely right.

You are absolutely right. The first priority isn't compensation, the first priority is to rip an innocent fetus from its mother's womb before it gets too far along and can't be done legally.

Charity Navigator rates

Charity Navigator rates every charity in the country in terms of the % of every dollar spent on administrative expenses vs. program expenses. Planned Parenthood's profile is found at http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4338. Only 9.6% is spent on administrative expenses, 74% on program expenses w/ the balance spent on fundraising. They received a rating of 3 stars out of a possible 4.

It's the same manner of

It's the same manner of legislation put forth by the Republicans. Are you saying their legislation is unproductive & worthless as well?

How you can call this "underhanded" is beyond me when the conservatives seek to subvert the right to privacy we all have, as interpreted by the Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade, and subsequent right to abortion women have.

Please,

You can't really believe that this type of legislation is for the "protection of the women having abortions". The republican/christian right has only one agenda - end a womans right to choose to terminate a pregnancy under all circumstances. Anything less is just the steps they take down the path.

Not exactly....

The "agenda" is to protect the innocent life within the womb. It's not "her" body. The fetus has its own unique DNA. How can the fetus be her body when its DNA is different? Just like being in a house does not make you a bedroom. And she does have a right to her body and to "choose." Don't have sex if you're not ready to have a baby -- plain and simple. But of course, that is about personal responsibility. A topic our society prefers to reject.

i disagree with the ultrasound rule

But Howell's reaction is immature, emotional, illogical, and unproductive.

N ot really

I've read that Viagra is dangerous stuff. This bill is intrusive and uncalled for. Insurance is unlikely to cover this unnecessary expensive procedure. if the state wants to require it, the state should pay for it. Also, this bill sets a dangerous "big government" precedent in dictating both a medical procedure and what must be held in a chart (and charts are increasingly not printed.

Hypocricy

Just further proof of the Hypocricy that is the GOP. All we hear from them is how they want to get Government out of our lives. This represents the ultimate govenment intrusion. They believe government should stay out of our lives EXCEPT with respect to their (GOP) personal, religious or social beliefs. In those cases it's ok to force government intervention down our throuts!

I agree but would add

While I agree that the GOP verbally uses the phrase: "less government interference in our lives" What that means in GOP-Speak is "less government interference in our business lives" It is fine for the government to impose conservative values on everyone. To the GOP it is bad when the government wants to regulate the financial industry, or protect consumers, or protect the environment. The GOP is about freedom for business and control of individuals.

Senate

Sad to think of our Great legislative minds today where once we had people like Patrick Henry who helped form the Nation. Just a commentary about the dumbing down of America

Actually good but not necessary

Most doctors should give men a heart test before prescribing a drug for ED, and men should get a prostate exam periodically, so the Senator was close on her bill. This is probably standard practice for most reputable physicians because it reduces their liability.

I guess the Governor's

I guess the Governor's admonission not to overreach has fallen on deaf ears. The republican party, which espouses a view that government intrusion in our personal lives should be kept to an absolute minimun now will require that woman undergo a procedure directed by the Legislature, not the woman's physician. The audacity of this action defies belief; will they require head scarves next? What is the difference between the fundamentalism of the taliban and the republican party in the Legislature of Virginia? Must woman be directed to wear skirts and please their man whenever he desires? Frankly, I expect to see that voted on shortly.

Any Self-Respecting Republican

who thinks that preying on women's emotions and wasting money and time on an unnecessary procedure enforced upon doctors through politically-motivated legislation should have their head examined. YOU voted for these people. Now imagine if your 13-year old daughter was raped, discovered she was pregnant, decided not to carry it to term. She goes to Planned Parenthood and they have to perform an internal sonogram (INTERNAL is the standard procedure for early signs of pregnancy, meaning a lubed-up device being inserted into her). Then the doctor has to wave the picture of her rapist's potential spawn (really just a clump of cells) festering inside her. That's seriously evil. Call your Senator if you have any respect for children.

"Just a clump of cells."

"Just a clump of cells." Really? " Festering inside her." You really need to go back to science class. In the mean time, develop an honest argument without all the false info and scare tactics.

Not really..

One could argue with the festering phrase; fester means to make pus or to be inflamed. You can't however argue with the term 'clump of cells'.
That's exactly what is is at the begining phase.

not really.... viability

is the criterion. 15 years ago, a fetus used to be considered viable (able to live on its own)when it was born pre-maturely weighing about 3 1/2 pounds. The infant stayed in the incubator for many, many months until it was released when weighing 5.1 lbs. By that time, it had an incredible amount of risks: blindness, kidney, heart and lung damage. Human touch was deficient so that even the emotional development was stunted.

Nowadays, because of advanced technology, pre-mature babies weighing as little as one and a half pound survive in the incubator. What a tragedy! The agenda of anti-abortion only causes suffering. It is NOT pro-life. Pro-life is respecting life from conception to death and, many times, having to make a choice.

what is

is essentially evil is the fact you know very well that is miniscule of one percent of any abortion that would be performed and you also are aware that there are exceptions provided for rape, incest or the life of the mother.

Ah yes.

These are the people I love. The ones that say life begins at conception and we must protect this life at all costs, except in these circumstances that I think it will be ok to abort it.

just stop

Do these people, both sides, know how stupid they look? Unfortunately, when these “ideology defining” bills pass or fail, they are affecting people’s lives.

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welcome to virginia

Welcome to Virginia where our GOP government has their nose in your bedroom and the GOP controlls your life.

I can

absolutely assure you that no republican is the least interested in what you do in your bedroom. You are have been mislead by someone.

second

I second that. Since when are these abortions or ultrasounds being preformed in someone's bedroom. Get your facts straight and put up a rational argument instead of scare tactics.

Ok, maybe it should be phrased...

The republicans want to be in your doctors office to make sure that you are not seeking procedures they oppose. Is that better?

What a laugh. If you think

What a laugh. If you think Republicans wouldn't outlaw two men or two women sleeping together if they had the chance to, then you're coupletely out of touch with reality.

Virginia is for Lovers

Where the Atheists are tooling around with men's reproductive rights.

Hooray for Democrat Janet Howell

Virginia is morphing into a "smiley face" police State.

"Other than telling us how to control our bodies, live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, now, die, Republicans have done a fine job of getting government out of our personal lives..”

"When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross."

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The progress...

All women of childbearing age monitored for pregnancy...
Confined if they become pregnant...
Forced to maintain the pregnancy
and maybe just like todays news...strangled for the crime of having a baby of the wrong sex....

Really????

That's right. Pregnancy is just a nasty disease that is being forced upon women. Well guess what? We now know what causes this "disease" and it is 100% preventable.

#24

100 percent preventable - apparently liberals don't think they have any control over pregnancies - they just occur like the sun rising in the east.

Why yes it is

Certainly true. And one way is through safe, legal abortions.

WHAT?

You might wish to rethink your comment. Contraception prevents pregnancy, abortion does NOT prevent pregnancy. One does not get an abortion unless one is already pregnant.

Great, the State will be on

Great, the State will be on the hook for all those ultrasounds, for those who choose not to abort as a result, we'll be supporting the kid too. I don't like abortion either but it the State is going to mandate this and want women to carry all pregnancies to term, then they are going to have to come up with some more dough.

The Rpublicans' answer to a bad economy

What are they SMOKING??? People are desperate for jobs, and so they think long and hard, and decide it's time to force women to have babies they don't want?

It's time to teach those clueless old MEN what it feels like to be UNEMPLOYED...

#23

"force women to have babies they don't want?"

What do we have here, a group of men running around the country randomly picking women and making them pregnant without any input from the woman herself? This notion that women don't have control over their own bodies and pregnancies is sheer lunacy. While there are a small segment that get pregnant through no fault of their own, the rest are just plain irresponsible. What is even more crazy is that they want the taxpayer to pay for their birth control and their abortions and get indignant if they have to pay for their fun or can’t have abortion on demand. Talk about spoiled rotten.

GOP guilt trip

Abortion is a choice, period. I'm not interested in whether you support choice or not. Bottom line is Senate Bil 484 amounts to a GOP guilt trip and serves to paint the state govt as pro-life. I could see if this bill targeted 2nd trimester pregnancies, but it doesn't. VA women already must receive state-directed counseling designed to discourage her from having an abortion and then make her wait 24 hrs before the procedure is provided. The hunt for gestational age determination is just a lousy excuse to push the GOP's agenda on everyone. The sideline amendment, while fairly amusing, served no purpose and simply erodes the sponsor's credibility. Bottom line Gov Bob and GOP'rs - stay out of my bedroom and my medical record!

Huh????

I thought Republican's wanted government out of people's lives. And they are complaining about Obamacare? Who's going to pay for these?

Because they are hypocrites

They only want government out of people's lives if the people agree with them. "All about equality," the conservatives are. It's just that some people are more equal than others.

Richmond Times : Go Home Janet Howell

Ms. Howell's positive representation is less than marginal.

Yeah BAAYBAY - I'm a fan of Janet Howell

Great amendment she proposed -- funny how those rotund aging cavemen and the token tight-leashed Stepford wives in the state house didn't see it that way. I agree with Howell - men have no business even voting on this.

Give me Obamacare any day - better than the Republican's idea of weaponized healthcare!

Republicans in this commonwealth

are only hurting themselves by introducing bills requiring ultrasounds for pregnant women. It's really about taking away women's rights to control their own bodies.

Republicans still play the race card (for the last half century), and now the gender card (today), all to please a few right wing radicals.

We look like the Flintstones to those outside Virginia looking at us.

March 10th can't come soon enough.

I agree but

I agree, but I am not sure they are hurting themselves. There are a sizeable number of people who agree w/ them. They voted for them and cheer them on. I know lots of them--most don't really think through things. They simply want people in there who they see as protecting an old order that is still alive in this state. You say March 10 can't come soon enough--well, the impact of their votes lives far beyond March. It is insane when you see what ideas people will follow.

Hear...Hear....

Bingo! You are SO right..."they don't think through things." Their laws/bills/postulations are knee-jerk reactions to social problems they can't control...but find repulsive.

No Matter What

One can't help but ponder what our country would look like with thirty-six million aborted Americans working, starting businesses, and paying into social security or on their way to. Ten percent of the American population has been in$inerated.

... or 36 million more

... or 36 million more Americans on the uemployment rolls. It's so nice that you have a crystal ball as to how unwanted babies would have fared since society does not want to provide them with financial support if they are born to single mothers.

Horrific

Imagining aborted fetuses being burned in a fire is highly disturbing. It's difficult to ponder how great these people would be because I can't stop thinking about what kind of upbringing they would get by the parents who would decide that killing their unborn child is okay.

A revelation

what a revelation! Yes I see your point, but I think that your very optimistic. At least 50% would be living on welfare! Especially in todays economy.

Rethuglirats

want a government just small enough to fit into your bedroom.

Oh, and also big enough to wage war in countries that have lots of oil but aren't able to attack us (regardless of how much "evidence" they produce).

Bobby?????

Why isn't Bob For Jobs doing something for the Virginia economy instaed of having his munions shove their religion down our throats?

because because because because because

Because. Conservatives. Don't. Have. Any. Answers.

(and so, when all else fails, they opt for giving us that Old Time Religion)

Show me the bill;

Only question I have is who pays for this medically unnecessary service? Did this GOP bill include funding? Or does this get passed on to everybody in higher healthcare premiums.

Bravo to GOP Guilt Trip post!

Here, here. I agree.

Thanks Gov. Bob for keeping a woman's right to choose stuck in the 50's! Aren't you proud of the excess monies spent on this. Thanks to the Fairfax Cty delegate who tried to show how offensive and ridiculous this bill is.

The Cuch and the Gov aren't thinking about repealing any civil rights laws, are they? I am embarrassed and disheartened as an educated, voting mom and Virginia resident.

GOP wasting no time

The GOP is waisting no time attacking our freedoms. The clinic is a hospital bill, urine tests for government support, no protection for gays applying for jobs, and now this. Virginia we must vote these guys out of office as soon as possible. This is a sad time for individual choice and freedom.

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It is impossible to be a

It is impossible to be a decent human being and oppose abortion for any reason.

Yeah, I tell you....

A women who is abducted, beaten half to death and gang raped over and over and then beaten some more by sadistic psychopathic animals during a home invasion, for that women to have an abortion. How indecent.

But not near as indecent as a loving wife and mother of two kids who has a medical emergency and needs an abortion to save her life. How selfish of her to only think of herself and her husband and two children who love her. To make that mentally and emotionally traumatic decision. How indecent.

REALLY?!

Are you opposed to murder? Are you opposed to torture? How do you feel about somebody sticking a needle into the base of the skull on the FETUS and injecting a solution which "kills" it, not terminates it? How do you feel about a vacuum sucking the brains out of the FETUS, which death by the way, isn't instantaneous? Yeah, I suppose both seem to be a decent method, huh?! At some point, everyone of us is going to be accountable to GOD, whether you believe it or not, for the MILLIONS of abortions that have been performed, legally since Roe V. Wade. I am very grateful that he is a merciful and loving GOD.

I'm opposed to murder of

I'm opposed to murder of people I care about. I'm opposed to torture of people who haven't been convicted yet. I feel nothing about killing a fetus, except maybe some happiness that a woman's been cured of a parasitic infestation. And "god" is an evil superstition.

My 2 cents...

I agree with this proposed bill 100%. I think that if the woman was okay with the procedure something like an ultrasound shouldn't sway her...unless for some reason her conscience suggests otherwise and is the reason for avoiding the ultrasound.

And considering all the crazy lawsuits in this nation today, doctors should cover their backs with photographic evidence that a pregnancy existed and merited the prescribed treatment.

but

That would be too much government in our lives!

Then again, who wants to support a tax baby? What if the woman was raped? What if the mother is in danger? What if the baby will be mentally retarded?

Then again, the fetus does feel pain as it is being aborted.

Sounds just like another

Sounds just like another lobby $$ funded bill that our Repub reps and fellow carpetbaggers residing in the General Assembly would jump all over. Mis- appropiation of taxes, and corruption within our system.

Not much to see here but more of an ongoing hidden agenda. America having to overlook the obvious corruption and exploitation taking place right before our eyes.

The revolution will not be televised.

My choice

While I don't think I could have an abortion under any circumstances, it is my body and a decision to be made between me and my doctor. If you believe it's murder, then it' murder in any case. To say abortions should be illegal except with the caveat of certain circumstances is hypocritical.

No it isn't

Murder is a legal term. It means illegally killing someone. There are all kinds of legal ways to kill someone. Abortion is just one of them.

Not a 'someone'

at 4 to 8 week gestation it's not a someone, and it's not murder, and it's not you or your body so why do you care?

Let us see

That is your opinion

I didn't say it was

You have to be kidding. We should only be concerned with things which affect our body?

Unconstitutional

Another dictatorial Evangelical edict intended to coerce women into yielding to the demands of this radical religion. Unchristian because they worship the Ten Commandments while ignoring Jesus' commandments, they're more the Mosaic church than Jesus'. A fetus is a part of the woman and not a separate being until partition, a fact recognised by law.

This attack on

a woman's right to choose is typical of the republican party's pandering to the right wing of their party. I would remind all those who would restrict a woman's right to choose that EVERYTIME this issue comes up for a vote before the people, reproductive rights win EVERYTIME! (by 2 to 1 usually) Those of you who are attempting to outlaw abortion in VA should consider this. I would welcome a state wide referendum on the issue. Lets vote on it and live with the outcome, OK righties?

We see right through you!

"Pro-abortion rights advocates consider the ultrasound provision a tactic to add cost and inconvenience to the process with the goal of getting women to change their minds."... This says it all right there. I completely agree with this statement.
There is no medical reason for an ultrasound before an abortion.
Please, try proving you farce ideas on someone who doesn't know any better (like pro-life guppies).

No middle ground on this issue

It will always be that way. Both sides are blinded by what they think is right and just.No one has ears regarding this issue.It frustrates me just writing this.

RIGHT TO MURDER?

As a former supporter of abortion, I just don't understand why women have the exclusive right to murder an unborn baby. Anyone who sees an ultrasound of the baby growing inside a woman simply cannot tell me that isn't a human being.

JJ

What if your mama/wife/daughter was subject to rape or (gasp) incest, and became pregnant, or thier lives where in danger due to a complication with the pregnancy...I wouldnt say thats murder would you?

It's not a baby...

and women have the right to an abortion because the supreme court of the united states of america said that they have that right, and because only women can be made pregnant without their consent. Yea, coersion, force, rape, incest, child molestation.

It most certainly is a baby.

The only way one can make it NOT a baby is to kill it.

Not really

It will only be a baby if it stays in the uterus, nothing happens to it, and it is born nine months later, then it's a baby. At 6 weeks gestation it's not a baby.

How Can You Say It Isnt Living?

I challenge anyone to look at any ultrasound and see the arm buds, the leg buds, eye sockets, and the general movement, and listen to the heart beat. Then, try to explain to another human being, how that picture does not contain LIFE itself. Only GOD can give life and only GOD can take it away. The real solution to this argument is better education for the women prior to their becoming pregnant in the first place, through their own choice. Obviously in the case of rape, it is a more difficult choice to choose pregnancy over abortion. However, although all women would prefer to not have been raped, there are those who are glad they chose to keep their child, and they rejoice in their lives. "GOD don't make no junk".

Virtally any man and woman

Virtally any man and woman can procreate. No supersticious figures required

Never said it wasn't 'living'

Said it's not a BABY.
Can't argue with you about your god because he isn't my god and don't believe what you believe.

mandated procedure

Im not sure how I feel about the mother having to see the ultrasound. Would it change her mind? I doubt it. I would propose that the procedure be paid for by the state though. Funny how some people can be against mandated insurance but not about forcing additional charges on someone. If the idea comes from the goodness of religious zealots let them pay for it.

I too wonder who would pay for this unnecessary procedure

And if it's for the shock factor of seeing a "baby", that's not gonna happen because up until the beginning of the 2nd trimester, you'd be viewing on ultrasound what looks like that mess that falls out of your head when you have a sinus infection, not a "baby". Good try though! And with folks worring about Sharia law, these "laws" the Virginia legislature intend to put into action are no less draconian than those in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, places where al-queda and muslims rule. And to think I thought I lived in the United States. And I have to agree with Senator Howell, Viagra is an unnecessary drug to daily living, but then it's all about and for men and we all know how ugly men get when they don't get what they want!

And who is going to pay for it?

The state, I suppose, because the Republican majority has already said very loudly and vociferously that the government cannot force people to pay for health services.

This is unbelievable

How can a law be passed, or even considered, that mandates a procedure that is not even necessary. I am a Republican, and I am Pro-Choice, and this is absurd. I am hoping that for once, the ACLU does something right and takes this to the Supreme Court, and then I hope the voters speak up and vote all of the supporters of this bill right out of office.

If that's true

then the Powers That Be shine on you.

Why R We Still Arguing Abortion?

Same thing different day. Females have to tend to the children until they're grown and sometimes beyond. Men leave, do or don't pay support, and seldom suffer the mental agish that a female suffers in raising children whether those children are wanted or un-wanted. So if a female is impregnanted when raped, an ultrasound! How about a 12 yr old who is still a child herself! Really? Watch an ultrasound?
How much time and money has been wasted on the abortion issue? You can not force a female to be a good mother especially if the pregnancy is unwanted. Then the men whine, "but it's murder"...well you shoulda thought about that before having fun!

Roe v. Wade

The fact that lawmakers are attempting to modify ANY law already decided by the Supreme Court and left virtually untouched for decades is all about shameless pandering. And Virginia takes yet another step back..

More judeo christian law

More judeo christian law creeping into Virginia law from the dominionist party of big government. Just a few weeks ago these guys were fighhting tooth and nail to keep foreign laws and those based on scarey religious doctrines off the books. There are inconsistencies between what they say and do to put in mildly.

These folks won't be happy until the United States is a theocracy (of their favorite "christian" sect) and no longer a nation of free people.

It is disgusting.

next up , a trio of

next up , a trio of state-appointed old white men must pray over the ultrasound in the public square for a fortnight and ask the sky daddy for guidance. Then they'll decide whether the vessel . . . I mean the woman . . . is permitted to have the abortion.

Maybe the reason they are

Maybe the reason they are against abortion is because so many women claim it was by immaculate conception :-)

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Old Time Witch Hunts and the Scarlet Letter....

I think the next step will be a return to the days of Hester Pryne where women wear a scarlet "A" on their chests.

Maybe the plan should be to lock the men who impregnated these women in the stockade.

emotional blackmail

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Another elitist forced religious dictate

The flip flop party strikes again. Remember when the flip flop party decried that elitist was a dirty word. What is an elitist but someone who know best and demands that all agree with their version of the truth. Now we have a group of cultist demanding that their version of a book not science, and all must agree. The flip flop party is also the group that demands adherence to "the law", to "the constitution" yet do all they can to circumvent the law and the constitution. Their only justification, their bible.

It's about jobs.

Creating a market for back room abortions.

Laughable

I thought these were the same people who want government out of their lives and espcailly their health care, but in cases of morality its ok. Now if they start complaining about the cost of health care going up due to this its a joke, it is not cheap and the cost should not be put upon the woman or family if her/their mind is made up. Keep your religion out of peoples lives.

do you have any idea

How much of our tax $$$'s go to fund this crap?

What right does the Government have....

in mandating what a woman can and cannot do with her body? It doesn't mandate to anyone else what they can or cannot do with their own body. If for whatever the reason a woman decides to terminate a pregnancy, then it should be her right. What's gonna end up happening is this, government is going to finally get laws in place to force women to endure unwanted pregnancies, then they will have babies that they didn't want for whatever the reason, so now we have more children going into orphanages, more incedents of child abuse, etc. Where will it end, how will it end for these unwanted children? It's just a very sad day when a human being can't even make decisions for themselves without being forced to endure the emotional turmoil.

Who's surprised?

Who could possibly be surprised that the always hypocritical Republicans, whining constantly about 'government intrusion' and 'regulations', led by the nose by a group of bible-thumping, sanctimonous, self-righteous busybodies, would come out for this kind of anti-freedom, religiously-based bit of Heavy Handed Big Government. These dimwitted, sycophantic 'lawmakers' should be given not a rectal exam, but a psychiatric exam. They're all a bunch of whackos.

SO MUCH FOR

A "Womans Right To Choose" But your comment reminds me of the chicken running around saying the sky is falling the sky is falling

It Is A beautiful Day

The sun is bright.The temperature will be pleasant. We have the prospect of bringing more information to show that the unborn child is indeed a life and the self serving,humanistic religion of the liberal mind condones murder. Yes, it is a beutiful day.

Unless,

you are a believer in freedom. Thenit's a scary day indeed

Unless,

you are a believer in freedom. Then it's a scary day indeed

Take it easy

You dont have to be liberal or conservative to Jewish, Christian or Muslim, that its not murder...keep dreaming on your beatiful day, even if abortion is illegal it will still be done, and if men could get pregnant if would be given away for free.

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I will not support anyone

I will not support anyone who votes in favor of this bill in the future regardless of bill or vote.

Crap like this

is why I'm not a Republican.

And the crap the democrats

And the crap the democrats put forth would make you a ?

Is it really time for

Is it really time for comparison when this bill tramples upon a woman's rights? Since when is this the true spirit behind conservatism? It's not. Period. These legislators should be doing their job to fix the economy and lead, not spend their time violating women's rights for their own subjective cause.

When your fiscal agenda

When your fiscal agenda supports a mere 1% of the population, how else are you going to get elected other than to appeal to a populist social agenda? A military, industrial and 'congressional' complex (please check the original draft before objecting) is a hard sell in any world, but especially so in a world that no longer includes the ideologically anti-capitalist communists. Follow the money. The 'communist scare' got them elected then. Violating women's rights gets them elected now.

These guys don't really believe in God and certainly don't answer to one. It's a logical fallacy to claim a belief in God and simultaneously drop naplam from the skies on the very villages you are in the process of freeing from communist oppression.

I'm neither

I am most certainly not a Democrat. I'm right leaning and describe myself as a small-L libertarian. With all the problems facing Virginia and the nation, the Republicans are wasting time on crap like this. Republicans are always complaining about government interference in personal liberties, the doctor-patient relationship, business, etc, and this bill contradicts ALL of that. Abortion is legal and will be so unless the Supreme Court says otherwise, so all this bill does is mandate an unnecessary medical procedure because of some representatives' religious views.

People are worried about the economy, not this.

You saked.

"And the crap the democrats put forth would make you a ?"
How about an informed, intelligent former republican? Or at least, an independent who can think for him or herself.

Incredible

That's your response? You defend the Republican's assault on individual freedoms and you defend their intrusiveness into people's personal lives, not with any actual, honest reason (such as 'I hate American freedoms and I support Republican efforts to suppress them and turn our representative democracy into a radical theocracy', for example) with a such an immature non-answer? Impressive and persuasive for sure.

Abortion

I am truly against abortion but I do know there are many couples who would love to have a child and can't. Maybe this would make someone reconsider and give someone else a chance to be a wonderful parent. Each state could even have a list of these people, after a background check. The cost of adopting is out of reach for many and overseas, forget it, it costs thousands. Just a thought. Not made to ruffle any feathers, just thinking of all the childless couples.

It is not my responsibility

It is not my responsibility to ensure that childless couples can have children. It doesn't balance out that way. There are large numbers of children already waiting for forever homes, and childless couples who want children should look there before anyone attempts to obligate another woman to carry a child for them.

What are they Thinking...and I don't mean God....

This from a group that wants less government intrusion in people's lives?

The average ultra sound costs between $100 & $1000. Insurance companies generally do not cover it if it is just to get a picture...which is the only purpose of this bill. This will inc our health care/taxes. And place an extra financial burden on those who can least afford it when Va is cutting money to other social services.

This lacks any resemblence to rational thinking or responsible governing.

I'm beginning to think Repub's have gender issues...they blast teachers for being incompetent, then they want to pass a crazy bill like this.

I'm w/ the previous poster...this is why I'm not a Republican and never will be.

Define people

"This from a group that wants less intrusion into people's lives"? Only if those people meet Mitt Romney's definition of "people". Everyone else is fair game.

life --

Don't be fooled that aborting a fetus is not the same as killing a baby. Quit buying in to that! The public has been brainwashed that this is an issue about a woman's choice and her body. The embryo, the fetus, the BABY, is being killed. The ultrasound will just confirm life, so women can be properly educated about what they are choosing to do. Save a life.

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If you don't believe in

If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one.

Not only that,

the fetus may be used as a tax deduction!

I am a pro-choice

I am a pro-choice conservative (just look at my prior postings to confirm I am conservative). I think this bill stinks. The LEGAL choice women make is an emotional difficult one that they make. These women do not need any more unneeded mental harassment to make this decision. I wish abortion wasn't so but putting up unwanted additional blocks is not right in an attempt to force one's opinion onto another. If you use the excuse that will help educate the mother then you need to pass a law requiring our presidents to be in combat before sending others to the front line or every driver needs to view dead crash victims before getting a license. As a conservative you cannot stand by the less government motto then support this bill.

I stand with you and I hope

I stand with you and I hope the aides for these so called leaders send to read these posts use their stats to determine how badly a few of us could hurt a close election.

Unnecessary Emotional Shock Value

Abortion is a very difficult decision for many women who are put in unenviable position. Requiring them to view a photo of the ultrasound does nothing but undermine the logic that these unfortunate women put into the decision and may force a child into a family not ready to care for it properly. Does anyone know the rules for meeting with an adoption consultant before an abortion? I think that would be a better route to take in lieu of superficially guilting someone out of an abortion.

AMA Discourages the Unnecessary Use Of Ultra Sounds...

The Commonwealth may be opening a door to a class action law suit with this one. There is some evidence that ultra sounds can be dangerous. The AMA suggests that the use of ultra sounds be carefuly monitored and performed only by trained hospital staff....and experts say that ultra sounds not be conducted unless they are necessary. Unnecessary ultra sounds are strongly discouraged.

Again...a knee-jerk reaction to a difficult, complicated issue by a bunch of men who are clueless and have not adequately research the issue.

Take a big step backward, Virginia

"a knee-jerk reaction to a difficult, complicated issue by a bunch of men who are clueless and have not adequately research the issue."

Sounds like the Republican Party.

Careful Chris, your comments

Careful Chris, your comments hurt your cause more than help it. No one flocks to your side when you write the things that you do.

Feeling silly for the thumbs

Feeling silly for the thumbs after you read down a bit? Predictable "knee jerk" reactions.

Oh yes they do

Actually, rational comments like Chris's do help. It underscores just how heavy-handed and disgraceful the knuckle-dragging dimwits in Richmond really are, and probably cause normal people to "flock" in droves away from these third-rate buybull thumping political lackeys (a/k/a Virginia Republicans).

I believe that a woman has

I believe that a woman has the right to do what she wants with her body, but lets be real if the women is the only one who can decided weather or not to have the child then that child should solely be her responsibility. No child support nothing. When was the last time a woman said, well I don't want the baby, but the father does so I will give the child to him.

At what point can she

At what point can she transfer the pregnancy to his body? No woman should be forced to endure a pregnancy she doesn't want.

then

use birth control or say no.

Say no? Really? If she's

Say no? Really?

If she's been drugged? How about if she's 13? What if she's mentally incapacitated or handicapped?

Really, your solution is that she just say no?

It Takes 2...

And the "man" doesn't have any responsibilty in practicing "safe sex?"

Yes,

and at what point did some male person say if I have sex with this female person and she gets pregnant then I will be so supportive and nurturing and helpful, I won't walk away and deny the child and spend my money on drugs and cars and guns and other women and I will be there for this child forever.
Get real.

I am embarassed and

I am embarassed and disgusted to be a Virginian right now. The Republican party is out of control. They want to force women to have babies but then give them no help once the baby is born. What is their response to this ridiculous line of thinking? I can only hope that this is taken to the Supreme Court and struck down. What a complete mess and waste of time displayed by our Republican leadership.

No one is forcing anyone to have a child

They are mandating a provider offer an image of what she is aborting. If this is just too, too much to bear, she could 1) use double birth control, 2) give the child up for adoption, or 3) abstain. Lots of choices there. And if the iamge is just too much to bear, perhaps there is a good reason why.

You are correct-no one is

You are correct-no one is forcing women to have babies. But the outright disrespect shown by lawmakers and their obvious motive is reprehensible. A woman knows what she is doing when she is having an abortion. She is not stupid and ill-informed. She consults with her doctor before having a legal procedure. There is absolutely no need for this wasteful intrusion. This shows such blatant disrepect for the intelligence and freedom of individual women.

Woops, sorry about the

Woops, sorry about the multiple postings. Wish there was a way to delete them myself.

You are correct-no one is

You are correct-no one is forcing women to have babies. But the outright disrespect shown by lawmakers and their obvious motive is reprehensible. A woman knows what she is doing when she is having an abortion. She is not stupid and ill-informed. She consults with her doctor before having a legal procedure. There is absolutely no need for this wasteful intrusion. This shows such blatant disrepect for the intelligence and freedom of individual women.

You are correct-no one is

You are correct-no one is forcing women to have babies. But the outright disrespect shown by lawmakers and their obvious motive is reprehensible. A woman knows what she is doing when she is having an abortion. She is not stupid and ill-informed. She consults with her doctor before having a legal procedure. There is absolutely no need for this wasteful intrusion. This shows such blatant disrepect for the intelligence and freedom of individual women.

You are correct-no one is

You are correct-no one is forcing women to have babies. But the outright disrespect shown by lawmakers and their obvious motive is reprehensible. A woman knows what she is doing when she is having an abortion. She is not stupid and ill-informed. She consults with her doctor before having a legal procedure. There is absolutely no need for this wasteful intrusion. This shows such blatant disrepect for the intelligence and freedom of individual women.

But the Pro-Choice Movement...

Always favors abortion. Why is an ultrasound so offensive? Because it looks like a baby? Are you afraid that if a woman sees what she is aborting she will choose not to abort? I remember the Tim Tebow Super Bowl ad, which only stated that Tim's mom was glad she "chose" to have Tim against the advice of her doctors. The pro-choice movement went nuts over that ad. So is it really about "choice" or is it more about abortion under all circumstances?

The pro-choice movement

The pro-choice movement always favors choice. The anti-choice movement always favors legislated government intrusion into someone else's body and life.

Yes, the ultrasound is

Yes, the ultrasound is offensive and intrusive and unnecessary. It is a wasteful bully tactic and an insult to women's intelligence. And I doubt it will change any minds as the proponents hope it will. Just a waste.

An ultrasound gives a woman....

An informed choice. But the pro "choice" movement does not want information because it already has its mind made up that abortion should be available no matter what. What is a "choice" if it is not based on accurate information or mis-information?

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Priorities

We may go broke fixing our cars after driving through potholes, unable to go to work because of $1,000+ yearly tolls, be unable to elect whom we wish because of gerrymandered districts, guarentee a 13% profit to a private company for the next 50 years, but by golly, "Those Women" will have that sonogram! By the way, who will wind up paying for it? When will we realize that the right-wing legislature is beholden to only the world of corporate donations and the religious fanatics. Sharia Law is coming to Va! PFUI!!

MYOB Government

How does this gov't intrusion help anyone? My husband and I chose when to conceive; at the right time financially & emotionally. I was on bed rest for months, couldn't work and we discovered together all the challenges of conscientiously bringing a child into the world. Some of these women don't have the support we had; are financially struggling as it is, and get just as sick as I did so they can't work. Then throw in the possibility the baby may have serious health issues requiring extreme medical care. Who's going to pay for this? The taxpayers in support of this bill? Is it humane to punt the unwanted baby to dozens of social service agencies for 18 yrs? There's already enough abused, unloved, unwanted & screwed up people in this world.

we care

because it is a unborn child.

it is a clump of cells

it is a clump of cells inside another person's body. If it was in your body, you could make the decision about what to do with it. When it's in someone else's body, it's their decision to make.

By that logic...

Why bother policing a crime-infested ghetto and prosecuting murderers who take out ghetto residents. After all, it costs taxpayer money to do that, and the ghetto is an economic drain anyway, right?

How many commenting have had

How many commenting have had and/or know someone who has had an abortion 10 years or more ago?

2 answers

1. Who cares, and
2. What business is it of yours or anyone else??!

Best quote of the video

"When it comes to me and my body I'd rather someone else do the heavy thinking."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaPKt3c8S-w

How about an ultrasound on

How about an ultrasound on our economy? Roads? Over regulations? Housing? Whoever is setting your agenda needs some serious adult leadership. We voters are at the point where we'll demand you post your agenda as a referendum in the next election cycle so we can help you with some common sense planning and prioritization. What are you people thinking? Get with it! Wake up! And get the job of the people done!

A national embarrassment

An old joke used to go "every morning Mississippi wakes up and thanks God for South Carolina." With this kind of idiotic, anti-individual freedom, misogynist nonsense, every other backward state can feel good about itself when compared to Virginia, which seems hell-bent on returning to the good old days of the early 1800s with the current crop of Republican thugs in office.

information

Women who chose abortions have beens shown to be at a higher rate of suicide, depression and many other issues. Regardless on where you stand on the abortion issue, I would hope we could agree that it is a HUGE decision in a persons life and it should be an informed one. Planned Parenthood has a billion dollars in the bank and gets handouts left and right they can afford to show women an ultrasound prior to performing an abortion. Many clinics that offer alternatives to abortion already do it at no cost which MUCH less funding. It would seem the knee jerk reaction many people are having is fear. How can knowledge in a life changing decision be so hated..What is the harm in seeing what you are doing if what you are doing is ok.

Please provide your source for basing this statement

If you state a comment as fact please provide your source where this information is located to back-up your claim. Thank you.

Statistics?

Show your statistics, please. I have seen absolutely nothing in any scientific literature to support your claims about suicide amongst women who've had abortions (and I don't believe it), nor does Planned Parenthood have "billions in the bank" to waste on unnecessary procedures--everything they spend on something not needed is money unavailable for something that is needed. (Ever look at their financial statements? There's not a lot of cash sitting around to waste.) No one is pro-abortion, but we should all be pro-choice since we have no way of knowing what such a choice entails for anyone but ourselves. "There but for the grace..."

Shown ?

By what study, by what medical or social journal?
I have been advocating for reproductive rights for many years and have never seen such a study.

There is a reason

There's a reason you've never seen such a study; it is because no such studies exist. The anti-American, anti-freedom, totalitarian-minded GOP simply make stuff up to support their efforts to foist Big Government into the private lives of American citizens. As Stephen Colbert described it, they employ "truthiness', defined as something they'd like to believe is true, but has no basis in reality. You'll not see any substantiation offered to back up the bogus claim.

Here is a description of a 1st trimester ultrasound

"The patient is scanned in the normal examination position (dorsal lithotomy) with her feet secure in stirrups and her perineum even with the end of the examination table. Place a small amount of ultrasonic coupling gel on the tip of the transvaginal transducer. Then cover the transducer with a condom. After lubricating the vaginal opening, gently insert the transducer into the vagina."

http://www.brooksidepress.org/Products/Military_OBGYN/Ultrasound/1st_trimester_ultrasound_scannin.htm

So this is where we are now?

Demanding an incredibly invasive and uncomfortable procedure by the state?

And this is to be done before the state will permit an already legal medical procedure?

A woman's uterus is now state property.

When compared to what happens....

To a fetus during an abortion, an ultrasound is nothing. But of course if we accurately described the abortion procedure, it is so horrific that the comment would be deleted by Admin.

No worries

I don't see this holding up in Virginia. A similiar law was enacted in Oklahoma and was over turned by a judge, only months later. Although the original law in Oklahoma was much more intrusive for the patient, its still based on the same idealogy and the result didn't deter any woman from continuing through the choice to have the procedure done.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/28/clinic-new-oklahoma-abortion-law-hard-patients/

how is providing an unltrasound "anti-abortion"?

i get that the people behind this, and their ulterior motives, are anti-abortion and that their goal is to change a pregnant woman's mind. but providing additional factual information (such as an image on an ultrasound and info about the image's gestational age) should always be welcomed in any situation. if in fact the image on the screen is not human yet, not sentient, not worthy of legal protection, then it really should not matter one whit if it is aborted or what it looks like. if the woman sees the image and changes her mind because she sees it as human or sentinent, then perhaps she should be re-thinking her choice.

What is the real agenda?

These children would be born incapacitated and most likely die before the first birthday after suffering untold pain and at a cost to taxpayers in the mid six figures.

Might as well sue God for letting this happen. God is already the world champion abortionist accounting for 25-50% of all miscarriages, not to mention stillborn.

Through medical science, God is telling us that this potential child will not make it and the humane route is abortion.

If you don't like calling it God's problem, then look at it from a natural standpoint. Nature has a way of dealing with these issues, and that is either miscarriage, still born or death shortly after birth.

We will keep the child alive artificially to appease politicians.

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Comment removed for rules violation. Reason: Other

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Comment removed for rules violation. Reason: Personal attack, name calling

Both Sides Can Be Dubious

I suspect Republican lawmakers as a group are as split on abortion as everyone else. They do however support what will get them elected. Whether this legislation makes it into law or is enforcable probably doesn't matter a whole lot to them. They only need to be seen to be in support. The pro-choice side can be dubious as well. I wonder if the state offered women $50,000, or $100,000, or $500,000 to carry the baby to term and then the baby is adopted, at what price would almost all opposition to the Pro-Life point of view disappear?

On a humurous note, who else suspects some Republicans just might oppose abortion because they fear they will someday become retroactive and one day be allowed up to the day one gets elected on the GOP ticket?

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